Andrew's board

Hello again, Regarding my point 1. below, I just made a further little edit to the Fidel Martin PaddyOn The Turnpike transcription.

Hi Andrew, Sorry I didn't get round to answering sooner. I hope you're well. There are several points to address so I'll try to be a bit organised and group things so as to try not to forget anything. // // 1. Paddy on the Turnpike. I see you already put in my changes to the transcription. I like your proposal for the Z field; I've just now updated it that way along with a few other minor tweaks (the double "G2 Bd" fragment that I mentioned below; added a coda, ...). // 2. I broadly agree with you about the pros and cons of notational complexity. But I think there are other resources with simple scores, and I don't think it's a problem if the transcriber feels like writing a more complex or involved version. I'm glad you approve anyway about my changes to the bar structure. // 3. My preference for writing reels with quarter notes instead of half notes is probably a bit quirky, but I don't think it's a problem either really. I think this choice is defensible, despite its quirkiness. // 4. Email - my email is [firstname]_[surname] at yahoo.fr . I'd be happy for you to write to me there. // 5. Track listing for the recording - I noticed recently there is one on the UGA Bron media archives web page (bmac.libs.uga.edu), even though it doesn't give the timings, it's still better than nothing. // 6. Did you get around to looking at my version of the Fidel Martin recording of St Anne's reel? I put it on tunearch a few days ago. I'd be happy to hear your thoughts on it. In particular, after a little more careful listening, my opinion is now that FM was playing a fiddle tuned one whole note down from the standard tuning. So I think it would be best for our Paddy On The Turnpike transcription to be shifted down a whole tone, along with a note about this nonstandard tuning. (As I did for my transcription of FM's St Anne's reel.) Alternately it could be left as is in G, and simply have different note about the tuning. //

Best, Malcolm

Sorry, typo, I should have written Paddy On The Turnpike, not Paddy On The Rake, in my previous message.

I had another listen to the recording. I may want to make a few other tweaks to your score too. Maybe at some point I'll do something along the lines of what I did just now for St Anne's Reel. There is one issue in your version though that you may wish to fix yourself. In the middle of the B part you have "dBcA BGAF|G2 Bd G2 Bd". But FM only plays that "G2 Bd" fragment once. I'd write it my way, with semiquavers, like this: "[M:5/4]e(dBd) gagg dBcA BGAF G2Bd | egfa ... " Anyway. Sorry to bother you with all this. KR, Malcolm

Hi Andrew, just thought you may be interested. I took your transcription of the Fidel Martin setting of Paddy On The Rake and rearranged the meter and the bars. It didn't take very long, I only changed these two things; I made no changes to the notes. My way is how I see the phrase structure of this setting. KR, Malcolm

X:1 T:Paddy on the Turnpike [1] M:C| L:1/16 N:From an August 1, 1966, field recording of the playing of Fidel N:Martin (1891-1976) of Berlin N.H., originally from Rogersville, NB, recorded N:by folklorist Art Rosenbaum. Martin, a WWI veteran, had a repertory that N:consisted of Acadian, Irish, American and French-Canadian tunes. D: https://bmac.libs.uga.edu/index.php/Detail/objects/331630 F:UGA Brown Media Archives: identifier artrosen_00180 (Track 3 -29:03 of the tape) Z:Transcribed by Andrew Kuntz K:G GE||SDGDG G=FGG BGdG eGdG|DE=FG FEFF D-=FcF dFcF| DGG=F {GF}G2GA Bdef g-fgg|[M:3/4] dBcA BcAF G2GE| [M:C|]DGDG G=FGG "*"BGdG eGdG|DE=FG FE(F/E/F) D-=FcF dFcF| DGG=F {GF}G2GA "**"Bdef g2{a}ge|[M:3/4]dBcc BdAF G2Bd | [M:C|]egfa gfgg bgdg bgdg|eaea feff afdf afdf| egfa {a}g-f(g/f/g) bgdg bgdg| e(dBd) gagg dBcA BGAF|[M:2/4] G2Bd G2Bd | egfa gfgg bgdg bgdd|eaea {fg}feff afdf afdf| egfa (g/a/g/f/)gg bgdg bgdg|[M:5/4]e(dBd) gage dBcA (B/c/A/B/)AF .Gz GES|| P:Substitution "*"BddB eBdB||"**"Bdef gf(g/f/g)||

Hi Andrew, So. I made a transcription with a few notes and added it to the entry. Happy to hear any comments you have about it. KR, Malcolm

Hi, do you happen to know if there's a track listing for that half hour recording of Fidel Martin? There's a lot of good stuff in there! https://bmac.libs.uga.edu/Detail/objects/331630

I'm based in France. I added just a little info to my profile here - a link to my profile on thesession.org. https://thesession.org/members/40345

Hi Andrew,

Thanks very much for your speedy reply.

Let me just take the moment to say what a great resource this site is - and to thank you for your work on it.

I believe it's in C because I'm a fiddler myself and it seems to me I can hear the open strings which have slightly different timbres. It sounds like it's in C too, and I don't think it's an artefact of the recording or the tuning of the fiddle. And after another little listen I still don't think there should be those sharps. I reckon Fidel Martin, being isolated as you say, had his own ways of doing things. I really like this version because of these unusual idiosyncrasies - it's in C not D, and the "half turn" using a whole tone step at the bottom.

I have a fair few things on my list at the moment, but one of these days, perhaps in a week or two, I mean to go ahead and make the changes as you suggest. I think I prefer posting a separate ABC - I'll base it off yours though, that will give me a valuable start for things.

KR

Malcolm

Hi Andrew, A couple of comments about your transcription of St Anne's reel as played by Fidel Martin. https://tunearch.org/wiki/St._Anne's_Reel Firstly I don't think the sharps in bars 20 and 28 are correct. Secondly, I think the whole thing should be one tone lower, in C, not in D. Not sure what the correct next step is - as it's a wiki I could make changes myself to your transcription but maybe you'd prefer I didn't? KR Malcolm

I see - the "plus" symbol ( 002B) isn't going through. It's sometimes replaced by either a line return or a space.

Here's a shortened URL for it: https://tinyurl.com/3zybcsvs

Hmm I see the long URL go a bit broken. Here's the bit that should go after ".html?":

lzw=BoLgBAjAUAKuCyBLAxgCwIYFMA2YDCA9tpgLboB2A5AM5gASBADgLQBSiA5lAErjXaJGYAFadwjAE4ESmcugAmmMNQAumRlADKCFBhxgA4gQllyW8ICICMJoDuAV3IcwACgBEgFg3AGrvvAprvvAdrtevgEAvEF 3n7 rgCUYABmxsrSmAA0YABGdipg5AQ56NjY6QTxYCqoSgCOdugAbpgSYIzoiBLUAHTmYFYACtjoAJ6Y8gkEdk0qiDK0BOTllWASmMjG8oiOXQBaIOgZyMwqEhTUyBKCU3Ng8IWr2CTWaHPxiDjyAKRgAEwADF8AzMwfgAOIEAdigOz2B1WjEG5w4qByeDwYAAQgBNZgAOVRXw6PxcSJUjGoIAA9OSzph0FMGqsSCQ5p1jBxyQJkLJqJhqOSMoNmORkOT8T9yfEJOTFCMOrIYlAACI6NA03BGEwUMAwRaaAQcAj4DAkRiIK7OCAATgAbAAWeVK666LBq4ymMAAQXIowA6ogioN8AMhQHAMgEYAAkudqKgwOwONR0txMDhaAAyejGcgmxg8sBJ1YSRSjcPzSM4Cijc0WgCsVvl8HA-3JNqgABlwBBycCoABpcDusAkRAADwIUHe1BsGycPw61bAPygAG1eiB3QBdKDyJwAHzAmAHAC8vmAwABRBVgPdno9o0-IUZ7g9gY-ny-XgwvgBihjvO6gz6vheV7nreYAPiBgEnm IFnp h4-ju-4riAaKbgYf77ugL5OOgu5YS J4cEoe7bi ZQcCee54WAxFgGR-40jhYA0U 2GvnRpFOIeFFUSxTgcAAhAqHR4B0gkkeuQA&format=noten&ssp=10&pdf=incipits&pn=none&fp=yes&name=Michael_Colemans_Hop-Jig&play=1

Hi Andrew,

My reference is an old recording where the rhythm, although it's swung to some extent, is quite far away from the 𝅘𝅥 𝅘𝅥𝅮 pattern that's conveyed by 9/8. Often the two notes are hardly 'swung' at all. Perhaps I should have given a link where it can be heard: https://open.spotify.com/track/01YMnj0UVyK5gMTL9Tv9wc - or I could also give a youtube link if you like.

There are parallels between Hop Jigs and Hornpipes regarding the dotted rhythms, and Hornpipes are commonly written in 4/4 or 2/4. So I do think it makes sense to write it this way. Hop jigs are less common than normal Slip Jigs. I can give another example where using 3/4 made more sense than 9/8: a transcription of the Silver Slipper I put out here: https://thesession.org/tunes/8479#setting47663

Regarding playback software. Over-reliance on software is to be avoided IMO. Here I prefer to keep the score as-is, because I feel it's the best way of transcribing the music, even if the current version of the software can't play it correctly. Actually, my score (well, a slightyl adapted version of it) can be played in a more or less rhythmically acceptable fashion by at least one online tool. Here's a link, all you have to do is open it and press play.

https://michaeleskin.com/abctools/abctools.html?lzw=BoLgBAjAUAKuCyBLAxgCwIYFMA2YDCA9tpgLboB2A5AM5gASBADgLQBSiA5lAErjXaJGYAFadwjAE4ESmcugAmmMNQAumRlADKCFBhxgA4gQllyW8ICICMJoDuAV3IcwACgBEgFg3AGrvvAprvvAdrtevgEAvEF 3n7 rgCUYABmxsrSmAA0YABGdipg5AQ56NjY6QTxYCqoSgCOdugAbpgSYIzoiBLUAHTmYFYACtjoAJ6Y8gkEdk0qiDK0BOTllWASmMjG8oiOXQBaIOgZyMwqEhTUyBKCU3Ng8IWr2CTWaHPxiDjyAKRgAEwADF8AzMwfgAOIEAdigOz2B1WjEG5w4qByeDwYAAQgBNZgAOVRXw6PxcSJUjGoIAA9OSzph0FMGqsSCQ5p1jBxyQJkLJqJhqOSMoNmORkOT8T9yfEJOTFCMOrIYlAACI6NA03BGEwUMAwRaaAQcAj4DAkRiIK7OCAATgAbAAWeVK666LBq4ymMAAQXIowA6ogioN8AMhQHAMgEYAAkudqKgwOwONR0txMDhaAAyejGcgmxg8sBJ1YSRSjcPzSM4Cijc0WgCsVvl8HA-3JNqgABlwBBycCoABpcDusAkRAADwIUHe1BsGycPw61bAPygAG1eiB3QBdKDyJwAHzAmAHAC8vmAwABRBVgPdno9o0-IUZ7g9gY-ny-XgwvgBihjvO6gz6vheV7nreYAPiBgEnm IFnp h4-ju-4riAaKbgYf77ugL5OOgu5YS J4cEoe7bi ZQcCee54WAxFgGR-40jhYA0U 2GvnRpFOIeFFUSxTgcAAhAqHR4B0gkkeuQA&format=noten&ssp=10&pdf=incipits&pn=none&fp=yes&name=Michael_Colemans_Hop-Jig&play=1

It works because the author of this tool, Micheal Eskin, has put some work into integrating 'swing' instructions with MIDI output. It's pretty powerful I think. To get it to work in this case I had to get rid of the endings of the tied notes because that seems to be incompatible with the swung MIDI output.

About making the instruction to swing the music, I'm not sure how I can make it more prominent but I'm open to suggestions.

Finally, I really do apologise for the long delay in getting back to you on your comments. As you can see it's not so simple; and I thought it would be better to go into some detail in answering, and I've been putting off answering for some time. Sorry again!

Best,

Malcolm

PS Just for the record, here on tunearch.org, I haven't so far mentioned a related topic which is that of the downbeat in the Michael Gorman recording - I can't hear it like it supposed to be. I go into some detail about that in a discussion here: https://thesession.org/tunes/409#setting47908 - my score on thession.org is like the one here on tunearch.org but the downbeat is shifted - because that's the way I hear Michael Gorman play it! (I don't hear it that way when it's recorded in a similar style by Jimmy Power at roughly the same period: https://open.spotify.com/track/35CDwfp43HfevsbBE0dWi)

Hi Andrew, thanks, it's complete now...Cheers, Jan

Hi Andrew, I've done another version of Chris Haigh's Moonshine Kate from a field recording of Rachel Eddy, Adam Hurt, Beth Hartness and others at Clifftop on 31st July 2015....Chris Haigh himself has heard the recording and really liked it. Everytime I look for it on TTA it says Pending Changes....there's going to be an article about Moonshine Kate in the UK Friends of American Old-Time Music and Dance (FOAOTMAD) magazine Old-Time News alongside my article on abc notation and Traditional Tune Archive....

Best wishes, Jan

Hi Andrew, Chris Haigh has confirmed that he wrote the tune Moonshine Kate and published it in his book "Fiddling Around the World". I've amended the notes to reflect this fact now, so hopefully he'll get the proper credit for the tune. I think the edits are pending now.

I've also written an article for Old Time News here in the UK about abc notation and the Traditional Tune Archive website. When it gets published I'll send you a copy.

Thanks again for all your good works! Cheers, Jan

Was that Goldrush? Thanks....I've been told that the Moonshine Kate tune I put up here a while ago wasn't actually written by Fiddlin' John Carson at all...it comes from a book by Chris Haigh apparently. I'll check with Chris Haigh and amend my transcription accordingly. Thanks for all your good works! Cheers, Jan

Hi Andrew, I hope everything is alright with you...I'd posted up a transcription of Gold Rush but it doesn't get past the Pending Changes stage. Thanks, Jan

In the off chance you keep them (although I think they're just wrong), I did at least correct the barlines.

Hi Andrew, This page was just added https://tunearch.org/wiki/Michael_Coleman%27s_Hop_Jig However it is a duplicate and VERY incorrect transcription of https://tunearch.org/wiki/Promenade_(1)_(The)

I'd recommend it be deleted or at least merged. Is there an easy way to do that?

yeah the hole she leaves is immeasurable, but the wealth of what she left behind is here for all of us. thanks for all that you do.

Hi Andrew, just wanted you to know that Vivian Williams passed away last night from als. I was trying to figure how many contributions she made on here.

though it seems to have picked up some long slurs across the 4th and 6th rows of music.....i tdoesn't look like that in my abc editor

Thanks Andrew...I'm very pleased! And, I've realised what I've been doing wrong by inserting abc between the begin and end sections....I've been forgetting to add more begin and ends for the next person to add another transcription....I'll try to remember that. Cheers, Jan....and Seasons' Greetings

Hi Abdrew, I was trying to add another version of Chadwell's Station to the one that already exists, but I couldn't work out how to do the section begin and section end code...sorry.

That's OK, thanks....I realise you must be very busy! Cheers, Jan